the only host who was alive when fenway park opened in 1912. >> what's wrong with you people? there is no end to your cruelty out there. i'm sickright. dan. thanks. morning joe. thankfully, starts right now. suggested that whoever the nominee should go rogue a familiar term for you, in terms of their choice for vp. >> top of my list is allen west. i love that he has that military experience. he is a public servant willing to serve for the right reasons. he understands the constitution. he understands our national foreign policy issues. >> he served. >> he has served. i really liked him. there were so han many that are out there. >> what percentage of the american legislature do you think are card-carrying arsonists or --

>> good question. i believe it's about 78 to 81 members of the democrat party are members of the communist party. >> wow. good morning. what a way to start the morning. that was -- it's thursday, april 12th. welcome to morning joe. with us onset, actually looks good today. msnbc contributor mike barnacle. >> he always looks good. >> laid back. looking good. national affairs editor for new york magazine and msnbc analyst john pileman and former foreign policy buzzer to the bush administration. what happened to your other titles? >> consolidation. i love it. >> streamlined.

2.0. >> what happened? are you okay? >> you look so cute. >> it's terrible. >> minor league -- they're a minor league team. they're a aaa club right now. >> the red sox are a triple -- what was he faking before he left? >> he was thinking how much does that flight cost to chicago to get out of here. >> he's the urban meyer of major league baseball. you leave a stink bomb and then you fly to the midwest. that's very good. >> urbans destroyed the gators. and then he went to ohio state and of course, theo left us with nothing in september and then he flew off to chicago. >> when we -- >> it is. >> april lucky streak will begin. >> as soon as he shows up -- >> we bring luck, right? >> can i say the greatest guy, not only in major league baseball but maybe the world. fred will pot went out and saw the mets and the senators -- the senators. the mets and the nationals.

barnacle understands. the hardening of the arteries. fred will pine. been a long cold winter. lonely winter as the beatles sang. but man, they're out there. the fans were out there. took my family out to city field to see the mets play yesterday. there's just -- the ballpark is amazing. >> they ran up against stevens strawsburg. not a nicer man in major league baseball. >> i got to bring my girls. >> we've said this time and time and time again. fred will pine, an amazing guy. what he -- nobody knows what he does. he won't let anybody see what he does. not only for vets but some of the other people. >> i've got a lot of news. >> we're being positive. let's turn to the negative before we're completely positive. we were way too positive yesterday with bubba. by the way, herd so many people say that was one of the best interviews here because of

bubba. >> you did a great job. >> no, i didn't. stop it. >> just ask him. >> no. it was mike who asked the questions. guiding the -- talking about his dad. he is a spectacular guy. >> he really is. >> let's take you to the other side of the state. >> uh-oh. >> and go negative and talk about allen west. >> what's going on there? >> first of all -- >> vice presidential en west. >> soon to be second. >> i like him. >> 78 to 81 members of the communist party. i'm curious. who are the three members on the fence. not sure if they're communist or not. come on, seriously. he's comparing members of congress, dan seymour. >> hold on. >> i know. >> dan, let's talk about this with the republicans on the set. let's talk this out. he's connecting american

legislators to a movement that was responsible for upward of 100 million deaths between joseph stalin, paul pott. it is between executions, four starvations, the most -- it's still today from china to cuba, still the most repressive and most evil political movement in the history of man responsible for more deaths than any other movement and allen west is comparing american legislators to that movement. saying they're part of that movement. now, is there a responsibility of somebody in the republican party to stand up and point at him and say that is not an acceptable norm of behavior in our political party? and you must go out and apologize to these 78 to 81 american public servants who you

have defamed. compared to joseph stalin and mausa tongue and poll pot. >> other than sarah palin who recommended him for vice president. >> she's probably not going to do that. >> you know what -- it's important. >> i agree. i don't think we should put too much of a spotlight on it. we wind up elevating that rhetoric. simply to dismiss it and call it -- >> that's a good point. if you were a staff member, you could dial it back or retract it. i have their statement. it might help. >> hold on a second. >> i think it will help. >> as we get closer to the election, statements like these will be brushed over and i don't know -- it's going to be a swing state. the national republican party is throwing money there. but before they give him a dime, he needs to apologize for this. that's one -- the party needs to have clean hands going into the fall. it just disturbs me. >> yeah. i think it's hot rhetoric in a hot campaign and it very sort of

decentralized campaign where members of both parties can pop up. >> it's decentralized until it's centralized. that's until the republican party decides to give allen money. i know the guy, i like the guy. but this is unacceptable and -- >> mike is going to agree with me. >> that, what you said, i would submit is one of the real elements of poison in our politics today. the fact that the guy says what he says and in view of the political environment that we're all part of today, it's sort of viewed as well, these things happen. people say these things. instead of someone, whether a republican, mitt romney, the head of the republican party or any other person in public life, doesn't stand up and say, watch this clip, watch a man's mind go right off the trolley tracks. no one does that. >> yeah. the man's mind went off the trolley tracks. >> i have a statement from his

staff. i think it will help with the situation. >> the republican party wants -- as the future leader of the republican party, i am shocked and stunned and deeply saddened by this behavior. it is incorrigible. any political party, local, state or national that contributes to allen west's reelection campaign before he apologizes for this statement will meet my wrath in the future. now to you. >> your wrath. wow. >> i'm having fun. i wore a coat and tie so i decided to play grownup for a day. >> he was angry are about the allen west thing. he wanted to look official. >> what does your wrath look like, jeff? >> you wait and see. >> you know what meek is wrath. it's not that scary. >> it's pretty scary. >> mine is not that scary. >> i believe that, that makes sense. >> go ahead. i have a statement from his staff. >> i gave a lot of idiot a clip.

you know, it's midweek. i have a clip. >> they've been in the basement all night on the floor. >> they had cheat owe dust in their hair and when i said that, it popped out. >> go ahead. i'm sorry. >> so glad i put vodka in here. i have a statement from the staff. they apologized. >> allen west's staff. >> trying to recover -- i think you should. here's what they say. the congressman was referring to the 76 members of the congressional progressive caucus. >> oh, okay. >> the communist party has publicly referred to the progressive caucus as its all s allies. >> i guess so he didn't apologize. >> doubling down. >> doubling down. >> let's move on. this is just -- you know what, we spend a couple minutes talking about this. >> wasting a lot of time. >> no, it isn't. >> this is diplomatic of a much bigger probable phlegm politic

and both sides need to call it out. mitt romney is the head of the republican party and on the campaign trail he needs to be asked about this and condemn allen west, distance himself from it. >> he doesn't need to take a moment to think about it. like the led better law. seriously. >> he should take time out of his war on women. >> i got so much for you on that. >> he's gotten a siege on women from team romney is overwhelming. >> the war on women? >> yes. >> good stuff. >> you realize that you're doing a search of the internet, you realize in december, allen west said that "if justice ger balances was around, he would be -- >> this is not a novel kind of -- >> staff members like explanation of that. well, geez -- >> he's been stupid like this before and will probably be again. >> let me go to the war on

women. let's all try to get organized. all of you just be quiet for one second. >> made that up. go ahead. >> sorry. >> the new yorkes launching a new strategy aimed at closing the gender gap against president obama. recent polling puts the president up 20 points on romney among female voters. he's looking to turn the tables on the white house. take a listen. >> the real war on women is being waged by the president's failed economic policies. [ applause ] >> i don't know whether you saw these. these are just statistics which show just how severe the war on women has been by virtue of the president's failed policies. the number of job -- this is an amazing statistic. the percentage of jobs lost by women in the president's three years, 3 1/2 years, 92.3% of all the jobs lost during the obama years have been lost by women.

92.3%. now, the president says oh, i didn't cause this recession. that's true. he just made it worse. and made it last longer and because it lasted longer, more and more women lost jobs. >> wow. >> wow. first of all, can i just say, because we've spent time talking about this silliness of american politics. can we get serious for a second? he's got a really good tan. >> excellent. >> oh -- >> he looks the same as he did two years ago. >> that's true. >> wow. cry owe general ix. this war on women thing, i had people on the set talking about it. war on women. it's like talking points. tell me exactly what is mitt romney's war on women and they start talking about a virginia law which i condemned but never got passed. an alabama law and on and on. this is the talk point. they're going to stick on the war on women. >> you can see two things. one, how romney just tries to

bring it back to the economy and how defensive the campaign gets when he tries to refocus on the economy and jobs and how women were affected. >> it's a good line of attack for the romney campaign. >> right. you saw how prickly the obama campaign got in defense. you also see, for the last few months, we've been dealing with crazy land in the republican primary. that's where all the focus has been. you haven't seen crazy land in the democratic party because it hasn't been getting much attention because they haven't had a primary. once their people get attention and pop up. like last night on cnn. hilary rosen not just dealing with the war on women. you want to play the clip. not just dealing with the war on women, but ann romney never had a job. now it's like a war on moms. then you have the adviser of the super pac saying, you know, mitt romney only had 11 or 12 vice presidents that were women who worked at baine when he was there. i don't know if the context is for that statistic.

i was amused when i heard that stat. i'm involved with the romney campaign but haven't gotten talking points or data on this since they popped off last night. i was talking about one woman who the rise of her career, romney was indispensable. when he left baine consulting, he turned the firm over to be run by a woman. beth myers his chief of staff, his deputy campaign manager. i'm anything about all the senior officials in his life. >> i know you worked for them. making sure. >> i actually said i'm involved with the campaign and not gotten -- >> come on. you're condemning him for even talking points. by the way, really quickly, let me just say and let's keep going on with the news. let me just si that the obama campaign does need to be careful about this. because they have been attacked from the inside for not having the best environment in the white house regarding women. we know valerie and other people

who pushed back on that. i'm saying there are stories out there that say, as a club, he was forced to ask a staff member to go out and golf with him because he only golfs with men. plays basketball with men. i am saying, this is something that i don't think women at home care about. i don't think they care about it because they care more about having to be the main bread winner in the house, unemployment, all these other -- >> having done the panel on women by the council on women and girls last week, calling the kettle black. >> at the white house. >> i can tell you this administration has done more for women than any other. >> hit refresh button on the laptop. >> called the reporters on this note. the romney campaign seemed a little caught off guard when they were asked whether or not mitt romney supported the lily led better act passed by -- >> do you know what he said.

she loves wearing lily. >> mine does too. >> they were a tad bit clueless about the president's signature law that pertains to equal pay for women. that's kind of a problem. take a listen. >> does governor romney support the littlely led better act? >> we'll get back to you on that. >> you digging down to campaign aides now? that's all you've got. >> hold on. let me try it on you. >> responding to sam stein. but talk about talking points with -- i love it. >> i'm going to try it on you, joe. boys be quiet for a second? >> do you like puppies? >> let me get back to you on that. >> he does have a problem. later today, romney does indeed support equal pay. but the push and pull over women's issues is only getting started. blogs made by strategist and dnc

adviser and our friend hilary rosen about romney's wife ann? >> what you have is mitt romney running around the country saying well, my wife tells me what women care about are economic issues. when i listen to my wife, that's what i'm hearing. guess what? his wife has actually never worked a day in her life. she's never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are facing in terms of how do we feed our kids, how do we send them to school and how'd do we worry -- why do we worry about their future. >> ann romney who joined twitter just yesterday, responded in a tweet. i made a choice to stay at home and raise five boys. believe me, it was hard work. that was made for jim's statement. >> hilary -- >> i like hilary when she was involved in the president's health care panel. i don't know how tight of a link there is between hilary rosen

and -- she certainly supports president obama. >> the democratic national committee. >> to the democratic national committee. but not like she's in the administration. i think the more important part of this is john, there has always been a great divide. i've always thought people in the mainstream media and new york and washington have always presumed women support democrats. because we are around a lot of working women. out of bounds. whereas you know, if you look at the numbers, it's amazing the divide between professional women on one side, unmarried women, married women without children, pre come natalie democratic, the other side of the divide, married women with children who stay at home, predominantly republican. more conservative. i think we see that great divide between hilary rosen and ann romney. i think they represent two equally powerful forces in

american politics. >> it's a cultural divide, it's a geographic divide. there's a distinction there -- there's clearly a divide between those things. i would say that, two points. they're going different direction. one is there's no up side -- the democrats -- it's been true for a long time. presidential politics, democrats dominate with women voters, republicans dominate with men voters. democrats right now have a larger gender gap lead than normally. there's no up side to criticizing the choices of any women for democrats to attack women for -- to suggest or imply or anyway denigrate the choices of women to stay home and raise kids as opposed to going in the workforce. there's no political up side. it's a silly thing for hilary to do. it doesn't help the cause. on the other hand, where there's not a divide, there are a lot of divides between working women and stay at home moms. cultural, geographic. there's widespread support for equal pay among women across the

country in every category. for the romney campaign to not -- it's not mitt romney but still for them not to know off the top of their head in a conference call that they called on this issue to not know whether the candidate supports the president's first piece of legislation that he passed, which is on this issue of equal pay, it's absurd for them not to know the answer to that question, especially since he's in support of it. >> the thing is, you have to -- just looking at where we are in the campaign race, i guarantee you, this is not a question the staff was ever asked in a republican primary. >> which ended 24 hours ago. >> i was going to say that. >> this is an interesting, a signal that we're in a segue between primary and general. because now these are the sort of questions, meek a, that the romney campaign is going to start to be asked. they have to get up to speed or they'll stumble. >> mitt romney needs to connect with women. mitt romney needs to do t i

think there's been unfortunate potentially even risk to sort of putting ann out there. maybe even outside her comfort zone, maybe not. but having said that, the comments that are making news this morning by hilary rosen, when someone has five boys and is working with her husband on three major jobs before he runs for president, marriage is a team. a lot of couples work together and that couple works together. that woman works. >> she's been ill. she's dealt with that. >> of course -- >> her illness is part of the equation. >> impressive. >> she's an impressive woman. >> again, by the way, we've all done tv. and hilary, i am not defending hilary. we just have all done tv before. maybe at night at the end of the day, i just -- i don't think it's important what hilary says. i'm sure she wishes she hadn't

said it herself. hold on. the bigger point is that this does represent a divide. you can almost see everyone pouncing on the red meat, pulling -- say you have this hilary rosen divide and this ann romney divide. that's mitt romney, he has to figure out a way to get some out of the working women campaign. i think he will. if you look at the primary, look at the people that have represented, what do you call it? crazy frame. >> crazy land. >> crazy land and look at all the people that mitt romney has run against. they've damaged his brand, the republican brand, they've damaged the conservative brand. i think he starts rounding off the rough edges now. i think we're going to see that gender gap go down. maybe to like only 42 or 43 points. >> i think it will be ten, 11 in a couple weeks. it's a start. what do you think? >> yeah.

>> you think so? >> i would weigh in but alex told me we're going to a break. told me in my ear. >> the first segment was 49 minutes. >> she gave me that look. >> coming up next -- >> like i should say something but i can't. >> let's cut jim's segment. governor did he deval patrick joins us. the anniversary of his health care law. happy birthday. bill keller, we'll get a first look at the new issue of time magazine with rick stengel. first bill care inkaren with a check on the forecast. great lakes, ohio valley and northeast. warm, beautiful weather will return to many areas of the eastern seaboard after this chilly week. grab the winter coat. temperatures down to 34 in chicago. 34 in detroit and pittsburgh is

below freezing. late today, it is april. we expect severe storms had time of year. we'll get them through tornado alley. a few tornadoes in areas of rural oklahoma and also the farm towns of western kansas. maybe in lubbock and amarillo and midland too. we'll watch you carefully. dallas you should be okay today. forecastwise, just a slight chance of a shower. boston providence, new york city and philadelphia, slightly warmer today. but the real improvement will come tomorrow. check out a beautiful forecast ahead. look at fill fi. you jump into the 70s, near 80 degrees by the end of the weekend. get the shorts ready. we're going to watch warmer conditions in the southeast too. all the stormy weather today on the west coast. more rain in california. they actually had a tornado yesterday. did a little bit of damage, too. you're watching "morning joe." we're brewed by starbucks.

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we are back. >> we have to look the at morning papers. we need to look at this. >> did you get an e-mail? >> no. from the new york times, jury selection expected to begin in the federal trial of former presidential candidate john edwards accused of using campaign money to cover up his affair, support his mistress who he had a child with. he could go to prison for up to 30 years. >> are you kidding me? >> seriously? just let him plead it out. >> hof move on to the -- >> who thinks the federal government needs to spend time going after john edwards for had? make him pay a big fine and be done with it. seriously. >> he should pay a very big fine. >> i think the kids have suffered enough. >> that's true. he should pay a very big fine.

there you go. >> move on. this is ridiculous. wall street journal -- >> still dragging this through the mud. >> in a case that should shape e-books. sued apple and five publishers. alleging they conspired to increase prices. >> guns-n-roses singer wants no part of the introduction into the rock'n'roll hall of fame. rose said he does not feel respected and that no one is authorized to accept the award on his behalf. the sex pistols are the only band previously declining induction. let me say the sex pistols are cool enough to pull this after. axl rose, not. >> prosecutor filed charges in the trayvon martin case. second-degree murder. >> the sex pistols -- >> too much about axl rose. >> has there ever been a band

that fit just the entire sort of image of rock'n'roll. self-destruct than the sex pistols. a bassist that only played six months. an amazing album and amazing tour and then they just explode. self-destruct. beautiful. >> ever feel like you've been ripped off or cheated without the last line on stage? classic last line in rock'n'roll. you ever feel like you've been ripped off. >> incredible. 1976. one of the most important bands. state side, one of the least respected bands by the critics. they should be in every top five list. >> then there's axl rose. >> come on. have they ever released chinese democracy. >> i don't think so. he's fat and bloated. stay home, axl. the sex pistols. >> speaking of bloated, that's a segue. >> nice segue.

>> terrific. just jumped on the first one that really matched for me. jim is here can we talk about politico? are you done? >> i'd rather talk about our history. >> hot air day. >> the apology, the family for what sid did. >> made for a good movie. sid and nancy. that was a great movie. >> great flick. >> is it friday? >> not yet. >> let some people speak, joe. >> he sounds like my wife now. >> do you want me to go? >> no. >> almost. john harris has a story saying mitt romney and barack obama are actually an even match in the general election. what's he talking about? >> it's a good anecdote with allen west. for as freaky as politics are. for as dysfunctional, the politics produced two candidates whether you like the candidates or not who are pretty sane. who are fairly moderate inside

their party, have functional families, unlikely to see the scandal that we've seen from past presidential candidates and past presidents. it does ply in the face of everything else we're seeing in politics today. which is dysfunction from top to bottom. part of it is, i do think you have to be sane, have tons of self-control and self-discipline to make it through this nasty process. it stands in sharp contrast to the congress that we're producing, which is getting exponentially more dysfunctional and will be worse next year. >> it puts the period at the end of the sentence in terms much your column for politico. i believe the title was crazy never wins. >> what about six months ago, made a lot of people on the far right angry. jim, we see this time and time again. when everybody was talking about how perry or palin or cain or newt were going to win. talked about my dad. every four years. i can't believe people forget this. every four years the republican

race get out of the first couple of states, goes south, there's some craziness, but by the time they go up to the midwest, illinois, ohio, wisconsin, all these midwestern states, they mow down the crazies and it's always -- >> weed them out. >> always a mainstream candidate that wins the republican nomination. >> the question is, though, is there a at which that can trickle down? when you look at what's produced in the senate races and the house races, it feels to me like it's getting worse, not better. allen west, it's not like he's a fringe member of congress. he's a pretty mainstream conservative. i would say the same thing on the left. if you look at the number of conservative democrats, four years a, there were 55 southern democrats after the last election, there are 25. there might be 15 after the next election. you'll have a hyper liberal and conservative congress. >> do you agree, i've always believed and i saw this firsthand. i don't like to talk about it.

but when i was in congress -- >> you were in congress? >> please, please i don't want to -- >> keep it on the down low. >> joe was in congress? >> 104th congress. >> like bono said, you got to leave it behind, okay? >> you took on newt when he was in congress. >> he took on his own party. >> please. really? >> 30 years old. >> am i red? you guys are embarrassing me. >> newt doesn't like him, the real reason. because he took on newt when he was in congress. >> actually, newt likes me. >> jim, do you agree with me? i can't believe i'm getting attacked like this when all i do is love. >> you served our country. >> i did and i will again. anyway, tell me jim vand high this. do you think it's the computer modeling? i saw back in 2000 where they started using computers. they would come to me and say we can take this neighborhood and this neighborhood out of district 2 and by the way, allen

boyd doesn't want those republicans so you can take those. then we see over here the computer model, if we take out these three streets, then district 2 gets all the democrats, district 1 gets all the republicans. that allows both of us to walk through our districts set our hair on fire and get 80% of the vote. >> i think it's a racket that is hurting politic. but it's also, every incentive is towards being wacky at the house level. if you want to get attention, get on cable, if you want fundraising, make it to a primary, all of the forces. look at this race in indiana where dick luger is not a super moderate republican and he has to change very late in life his politics if he wants to survive the race or in utah, become more conservative when he's already super-duper conservative. >> stick around. sports coming up. mike barnacle tries to explain the red sox and why they suck right now. keep it here. so, ah, your seat good?

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this is awful. >> what? >> sports. >> red sox yesterday in toronto, trying to avoid their fifth loss in six games. they didn't do it. boston takes an early late. davis ties it up and the run

scoring triple into the right field corner. sox trail by one in the sixth. trying to get things going. gonzalez gets one --ment robs him of extra bases with a great grab. red sox trailing by two. two on in the ninth. but a ground out. red sox lose 3-1. they're 1-5 on the year matching chicago cubs. >> mike, you go back to september 1st of last season and the beginning of this season, there's no doubt the sox one of the worst teams in baseball over the past -- >> wow. >> i'm dead serious. >> aaa club. >> $180 million payroll. >> they're a aaa club. >> mike? >> watching them in september and then in april the next year, they had all off season. tried to correct some of the problems that -- let's just pray that the batters -- that theo

left us. >> yankees won yesterday, joe. >> i know. >> mets lost but it was a good game. >> stras berg is back. >> i think the mets will going to have a great year. >> the team in boston -- fred will pine. >> you have any opinion pages here? >> we got to keep vandehei here. >> like a bump on a log. >> nothing else to do. >> a must-read opinion pages.

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opinion pages. beautiful shot of the white house. the sun comes up over washington. it's 45 minutes past the hour. let's start with the washington post. this is dana milbank rebuffing obama's buffett rule. here's what dana says. part of obama's official speech will no doubt be repeated on the stump, including the points that we need -- we just need some of the republican politicians here in washington it get on board with where the country is. that obama cut taxes 17 times and the contention that the republicans today would view ronald reagan as a wild eyed class warrior. nothing is inherently wrong with campaign-style are the rick from the white house. george w. bush used it to pass his tax cuts repeatedly and in his attempt at a social security overhaul. the pity is that obama doesn't use his unrivalled political skills to sell a tax plan of more consequence and less gimmickery. i don't. >> i do. >> it's total gimmickry.

it's 10% of what you need. there's a big danger for president obama in that they become so insanely political in a political culture. almost everything they do now is either -- targeted at a specific subset of voters that they want to win. everything is going to be about hispanics and women. every single day, you'll see some event or message aimed at them. not about a serious policy debate. not offered tax reform when he could have. did not offer budgets. you might love the guy and many things that i get that people like about him as president, but in this season, he has made the calculation to be extremely political because they think it's going to be a close election. and they need to target the demographics. the idea that the buffett rule, that that is going to do anything to change the problems that the country has either with the tax code or the pile of deficit. >> or job growth. >> no one suspects it's -- it's a growth strategy. there's no growth. doesn't put a dent in the debt or deficit.

it doesn't generate enough ref mu to fund the programs that the administration wants. this isn't a big idea. >> the concept that this is the answer to everything. but i think it's an important facet of their message and what this white house stands for. as for women -- i do agree, they passed on taxes and at key times when they could have stood up for what they believe in. they didn't. they waited until it was more politically feasible. they've been working on that since he got into office. >> it was part of something bigger, that would be different. if he's talking about the buffett rule and ten other changes to the tax code, then get to the hat of problem that would be different. >> what does that say about our politics when one. most popular sinners is playing an important role in the tax debate. >> jimmy buffett. >> i know. >> i'm a serious -- >> it should be -- next it's going to be the vicious, sid vicious tax reform. >> that would make you feel --

>> i think you're tapping into something that's important. >> why are you picking on a guy like jimmy buffett. >> idiots. >> the buffett rule is smart politics. >> they're kicking him around. let's go to daniel. hen inger. >> wall street journal. paul ryan insists the debate isn't over and that it's locus is the federal budget. which isn't just numbers. the budget is the formal justification for the scale of the demands it makes now an unto eternity on the nation's citizens. this is the debate barack obama hopes mockery and rhetorical carpet bombing can kill before the fall campaign. it's only a guess. but i'm betting his opponent is forcing the president to come up with a better argument for establishing a government in the u.s. that is subordinate to no one. >> jim vandehei, i'll say it now. i love paul ryan, been a fan of his for a long time. there are a lot of things i don't like about his budget. it's more of a political

document than the one last year. that said, at least they have a budget. this follows up what you said about the politicking going on inside the white house. you get the sense that they're saying don't put a budget on the floor. it's been over a thousand days. his term, in terms it of budgeting and deficit reduction, more gimmicks. more politics. >> you should weigh in on this dan. a big problem for romney is going to be that he is so tightly embraced, paul ryan. whether you like his politics or not and whether you like or don't like his medicare plan, it's an extremely complicated, difficult to defend plan. i don't know that romney's heart is in it. your heart and head have to be in like ryan's are. medicare is complicated. it's easy to demagog. there has to be proof that romney buys into it. he needs to make an argument for it or he will get crushed. >> i think he will. there are a number of high-profile people who could make this case as well. the burden is not on mitt romney

alone. you'll have very powerful national figures making the case. the obama administration, obama runs -- president runs the risk of overdoing it. as he talks about in the column, the ryan budget social darwinism. the president calls it that. i think there's like you take april step back and you say really? that's what this is about? it raises the credibility of ryan and romney. >> the problem with ryan's medicare and medicaid plan, what george w. bush tried to do. you cannot make the reforming of entitlement programs too complex. you just can't. you can talk about math, you can talk about slowing down the rate of growth. you can talk about raising the age, you can't change formulas and explain that on the campaign trail. that is going to be a problem with the ryan plan. really quickly, we brought up chris christie. >> i have a news story on him. didn't get to it. >> his numbers are insane.

>> this guy is pushing 60% in new jersey. one of the bluest states in america in new jersey. come on. that's just amazing. >> impressive. >> that is impressive. >> i don't agree with everything he's been saying lately. >> you don't? >> alex, wow. >> coming up next, michelle obama turns the colbert report. alex is screaming in mika's ear. shouldn't interrupt you. this time she gets inside stephen's head. we'll be right back on morning joe. all right, let's decide what to do about medicare and social security... security. that's what matters to me... me? i've been paying in all these years... years washington's been talking at us, but they never really listen... listen...it's not just some line item on a budget; it's what i'll have to live on... i live on branson street, and i have something to say...

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mrs. obama launched an initiative to support the troops. if she could see how hard i'm supporting you right now, i can only imagine what she would say to me. >> thank you for your service to your country. all-americans owe patriots like you a debt that can never be repaid. you are a true national pressure. >> thank you for noticing, ma'am. >> i'm not talking to you stephen. i'm talking to brian. >> oh, it's for you. >> thank you, ma'am. >> anything you want to say to me?

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i believe there's about 78 to 81 members of the democratic party that are members of the communist party. >> 78 to 81. that's -- members of the communist party? really? it's time for somebody to lay off the tom clancy novels. that, by the way, is a guy that people think should be mitt romney's running mate. we haven't had a truly crazy vice president since, now, actually. >> you're never going to get over that. >> no, i'm not. >> back to morning joe. mike barnicle are still with us. new york times columnist is joining us. >> look what he brought in. very excited about this. >> that's really exciting.

thank you. >> sneak preview. >> good headline. ordinary in the morning. >> you wonder why. my lord. nice picture. >> that's great. new york times magazine. >> you didn't like your picture when they did it. >> i had five double chins. i'm a conservative. it's never the editors i fear in national magazines or -- because i've been treated very fairly. it's the photo editors that scare me. they're the ones with all the power. >> a lot of talking. >> that's really where you can screw people. i know. i did a weekly newspaper. >> five double chins. i had five. >> they took mine off. nice. thank you. lovely -- >> learned a lot from that piece, including the fact that you regard joe as your gay stylist. >> yes, he is. he's quite flamboyant that way. >> it's weird. >> it's called -- swipe at twitter.

>> really strange. >> scarf, no scarf. get the hair down. my wife is always -- her friends have always since we've been married, they've always -- can your husband come over and rearrange my if you were tur. oh, this opens it up. >> we start doing the show. >> it's terrible. >> he drives me -- anyhow. >> it's not 1989 anymore. >> exactly. thank you very much. >> you have a fascinating piece in the new york times. you followed the careers of four republicans who have taken a stand on gay marriage and what has happened to them? talk about the piece. >> they're facing reelection this year. the outcome is to be determined. i took them as a microcosm. people think of new york as manhattan, liberal blue. these guys represent districts in the state of new york that are real america. buffalo and rochester and the towns a lon the hudson. they're pretty conservative guys. >> can i just say, i leave that

for west side. that's real america too. i'm insulted by your sarah palinesque world here. >> it's not what sarah palin thinks. got to live up there too. these four guys broke with the republican party, voted in favor of gay marriage, provided the margin that cuomo need today pass it. i wanted to see what are the consequences. is this an issue because the conservatives really put a target on their back for that. regard it as a hideous act of betrayal. >> how do they feel they're going to be -- what i found is things have changed a lot since the mid 1990s. a lot of republicans, lot of conservative republicans on social issues, you know what, let's -- they've become more libertarian. stay out of my pocketbook, don't raise my taxes. i don't want regulations and stay out of people's bedrooms. >> i think that's right. the thing that surprised me was not the mood shifting in favor

of gay marriage. the polls show in the last year, six months, the majority of americans support it. but it's the pace of it. it's been so fast and so dramatic. the shift in favor. that even for these four guys in conservative districts, they're not facing a huge backlash and in fact, the system is kind of conspiring to protect them. republicans and democrats both. >> mike, i want to say quickly. one of the fascinating things about america. i would say time and time again, it's not ideological. you could look at the trends towards gay marriage and say socially the country is becoming much more liberal. look over the past 20 years on abortion, which the country seems to be getting more conservative on the issue of abortion, more liberal or libertarian on the issue of gay marriage. it's fascinating. >> on both issues, if you're a state senator or a state representative in whatever state, to your piece, bill,

issues like abortion, issues like gay marriage, the constituent work that a local legislator does can be enough to buttress against the pressures by the big um preliminabrella ce groups. >> is it really true with you're talking about state senate races and state assembly races. a lot of it is we know the guy, we went to this event. he showed up and we had a problem. we called his office, got good case work. that makes them more for giving. gay marriage is turning out, i think, to be a different kind of social issue than, say, abortion. in anti-abortion they see a victim in this. they're passionate about the pro life stance. the people opposed to gay marriage kind of get over it quickly. i mean, it's, if you will, a victimless thing. >> it's also -- did you find or

did you look at the generations in gay marriage. younger people. >> i'm sorry. alex was talking in my ear. i'm going to get to the top stories. the new york times is reporting the romney campaign is launching a new strategy aimed at closing the gender gap against president obama. recent polling puts the president up nearly 20 points on romney among female voters. now the likely hoop nominee is looking to turn the tables on the white house. >> the real war on women is being waged by the president's failed economic policies. [ applause ] >> we handed these out. i don't know whether you saw these. these are statistics which show just how severe the war on women has been by virtue of the president's failed policies. the number of -- this is an amazing statistics. the percentage of jobs lost by women in the president's three years, 3 1/2 years, 92.3% of all

the jobs lost during the obama years have been lost by women. 92.3%. now, the president says oh, i didn't cause this recession. that's true. he just made worse. and made it last longer. and because it lasted longer, more and more women lost jobs. >> a conference call with reporters, the romney campaign seemed caught off guard when they were asked whether mitt romney supported the lilly ledbetter act which the president signed in an effort to achieve equal pay. >> does the governor aromashodu support the lily led better act? >> we'll get back to you on that. >> he's a trouble maker. first of all, you have to fall that as a trouble maker. >> no. actually, that's just too bad. >> what happened later in the day, mika? >> later in the day, the romney campaign said he does support

equal pay. had to think about it. >> we support it. >> the push and pull over women's issues is only getting started. they pounced on a comment made by hilary rosen about romney's wife ann. >> what you have is mitt romney running around the country saying, well, you know, my wives tells me what women really care about are economic issues. when i listen to my wife, that's what i hear. guess what, his wife never worked a day in her life. she's never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are facing in terms of how do we feed our kids and send them to school and how do we -- why do we worry about their future. >> ann romney joins twitter yesterday and responded in her first tweet saying i made a choice to stay home and raise five boys. believe me, it was hard work. >> now, rosen, by the way, doesn't work ekt directly for the obama reelection team. but the comments set off a

firestorm on twitter everywhere. it is a very, very deeply emotional issue. >> any mom that -- you hear the never worked a day in her life. >> that's an unfortunate statement. hilary rosen has a blog out saying still, to be able to have the choice is a luxury. i'm not sure that helps the situation. i would also contend to say that i know ann romney and she has five boys. that's enough there. that would be enough right there. she's been campaigning her husband for five years. she has been working, maybe not receiving a salary. but she's been working full-time 24/7 and before that supporting her husband's very intense stressful career. she works. it's not an argument. she works. bill keller, would you like to add? >> you guys were talking earlier about how this campaign has been debased into a gimmick i level. a lot of the conversation so far about the gender gap seems to me to be in that category too.

there's something a little patronizing on both sides. here's a woman and she's -- somebody made a comment that was inept and we're going to hold that against her. i don't think women vote on that sort of thing. i think yes, romney is right. they'll vote on the economy. the numbers he was trotting out were grossly misleading. >> yes. >> they're going to vote on whether or not they think the government -- the president is going to sick government on them and interfere in their lives. they're going to vote on the things that most people vote on. they're somewhat more liberal on social issues the polls show. they have slightly different standards but not at superficial as the campaigns make them out to be. >> so how would mitt romney fix this problem in terms of how he connects with this issue? how should mitt romney? my contention is watching this unfold, i'm not sure it was it comfortable completely.

but mitt romney needs do it. how does he do it? >> i agree with bill completely. i don't think they need to overplay their hand. >> it looked forced when he was rattling off these numbers. >> i think at the end of the day, the numbers, i don't know why the numbers are misleading. i haven't looked into it enough. john highly man, though, romney does have one thing right. women aren't going to be looking at the chattering back and forth and what people are saying on prime time cable at night. they are going to be looking at the bills and checkbooks and looking at the things that working women and women who work at home look at. that's the bottom line. >> this is why, we talked earlier about this led better thing. it's strange to me. you made the point that they've pivoted the general election. they held the conference call to address women issues and didn't have an answer to a basic question. it seems a little inept. the more important thing is why are they taking this debate on

the terms of the obama campaign? it doesn't seem like a smart play to me to say, no, we're not waging a war on women. you're waging a war on women. that doesn't win female votes. the way to win female votes is to come up with an economic plan that will be -- that will help lift the middle class and provide for more income security or more job opportunities or -- there's got to be a vision here that is -- that's not about hit for at that time. it's a crazy strategy it seems to me. there need to be a proactive positive economics is what matters most to women and to men. if mitt romney can sell an economic vision to the country and to average working people, he will get his fair share of women voters. that's the bottom line. >> mike, i think also, they don't have to overplay their hand now. because they are suffering. not because of what mitt romney did over the past six to nine month. but because, as dan senior said,

because it's been a crazy show in the republican primary process. as that crazy train slowly drives off into the sunset, we'll be left with mitt romney and i think a lot of the negative will -- over time will -- i don't think they have to force the issue. i think -- >> will heal these wounds. >> right now, mitt romney is carrying the rhetorical baggage of his party's primary process over the last three or four months which included a lot of completely crazy things. the huge issue is equality of pay for women. that's a huge issue. >> yes. >> we've lived it. >> i don't know. my sense of it is, that the way romney, the republicans, the democrats as well, ought to address this is as a whole. not just speaking to women as a separate group. just the country as a whole. let's go. we've got an economic program as you said. here's what it is. it's going to result in equal

pay and better benefit for everyone. not just women. >> i think joe, the thing that -- the shame for romney, he didn't take more opportunities to distance himself from the crazy train rhetoric. he had a lot of chances where he -- whether on rush limbaugh and the sandra fluke story or the various things that santorum said. instead of saying no, romney ear tacitly or explicitly agreed with. he had a lot of missed opportunities in this primary to put himself in a better position with women. >> this goes back a long way. i talked about glenn beck. i was hoping two years when glenn beck called the president a racist and a fascist and communist, that mitt romney would have -- he doesn't do that. i think it's unfortunate. >> so here's the front page of the new york times. and mr. editor, grade the media,

not only print, but also broadcast. grade the media on how they've handled the trayvon martin/george zimmerman case. i'm sorry, of late, it looked like bonfire of the vanities. >> mr. former editor -- >> you're always editor. >> editor emeritus. >> exactly. >> i think that the media went a little slow to the story. it took a while to realize that this is something that resonated beyond florida and to understand why. and then when they did realize that it was a big story, they did as they do and overcompensated. they went a little too big. i thought -- in a way, it's hard to avoid. but i think the media became kind of complicit in this rush to judgment, the judgment that this was a race crime, a hate crime. you notice, when the special

prosecutor press conference yesterday, there was absolutely -- maybe this will come out later. but there was no reference at all to race being a factor in this crime. yet, the assumption among a lot of the protesters, not apparently his parent, but a lot of people who glommed on to his parents and used this as a moment to score political points was that this was a clear -- this was as al sharpton sed, selma and birmingham. you know, when something acquires that pitch, you have to always to some extent fault the media for not tamping it down saying whoa, wait a minute. in fact, my paper did a nice job of a massive reconstruction of everything that was known that got us a bit beyond the hyste a hysteria. >> certainly did. i remember reading specifically or reading the story and then looking at the one, two, three, four. the timeline of how all this went down. mike, i think one of the things

i think that's been unfortunate. we were critical from the beginning not of -- not judging george zimmerman, certainly asking questions about what zimmerman did. but looking institutionally at the sanford police. >> because we as americans are innocent until proven guilty. but i'm sorry all the facts of this case, you know the biggest questions i've had from the very beginning, first of all, why didn't they hold him as they would have held almost anybody. why did trayvon martin's body sit in a morgue for three days when they had a cell phone there and didn't notify the parents? with a history of what's happening in sanford before, that's -- it's an institutional issue. as you know very well, there's racism in boston just like mississippi and across the south in the 1960s. what was the difference in. >> that in the south there was institutional racism. it was with the police

departments, it was with the attorney generals, it was with the governors. whereas that wasn't the case. here, i think what's disturbing is we have the police department, we have a state attorney that at the beginning, i think, acted in really questionable ways. >> your question to bill raises a couple of questions in and of itself. one is what is the media today? is it tweeting? is it cable? or is it dan barry and the new york times going down to sanford, florida and doing -- walking you through the area. giving you a feel for what the street looked like. did the door open, where was the 7-eleven? that's called reporting. the other thing that comes to mind is yesterday's news conferences, the two of them, the special prosecutor and the defense attorney, we talked about this earlier off camera. as someone who loves newspapers, who loves the news, i would urge

more people in our business to watch those press conferences and take notes from those press conferences, because one thing is clear from those press conferences. we don't know much at all. we know that trayvon martin is dead. we know that he was shot to death. the circumstances surrounding it, how that happened, we aren't very clear on any of that yet. let's wait and see what happens. that's why we have trials. judging the institutions in this case, you can't separate that from the stand-your-ground law. which is in florida ties the hands to some extent of the -- of prosecutors and police. i mean, prosecutors and police should be rising up against that law because it put the burden of proof on them when somebody oh, yeah, i shot him it was self-defense. it kicks in a presumption of innocence. >> a lot of states -- the law that really needs to be examined in a thorough way across the country. it really is problematic.

>> we this had the chief of philadelphia, chief of miami on this show several times, he had a piece in the new york times on the op-ed page several days ago about this law and how dangerous this law is. >> that's going to be a debate mika has we move forward. the guy who actually drafted the bill from the very beginning said this case does not apply, that the law that he drafted. but i think that's going to be a big part of the debate. >> the spotlight is on all angles. at least it's there now. bill keller, stay with us. up next, exactly six years after mitt romney signed health care into law in massachusetts, we'll talk about its impact with the current governor, deval patrick. you're watching morning joe, brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] if you believe the mayan calendar, on december 21st polar shifts will reverse the earth's gravitational pull and hurtle us all into space.

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my son said that having senator kennedy and me together like this on this stage behind

the same piece of landmark legislation will help slow global warming. [ laughter ] that's because hell has frozen over. all right. 23 past the hour. that was massachusetts governor romney at the time. he signed the massachusetts health care bill into law. his democratic sub assessor governor deval patrick. good to have you on the show. >> good to be with you mika, good morning. >> good morning. this is a good opportunity for the campaign because drives home the health care message and sticks it to the romney campaign. the obama campaign, by the way, contacted us about this. i just thought i would point that out. >> it's a good day for us here in massachusetts. we have more people covered, over 98% of our residents, 98.8% of children. more businesses offering insurance to their employees an

it's added all of 1% to the state budget. it's very affordable and it's done a lot of good. we're excited to celebrate it. >> governor, you are here, though, speaking on behalf of the obama campaign? >> i'm here speaking on behalf of the people of the commonwealth of massachusetts first and foremost. >> of course. >> you are right that i am a co-chair of the reelection campaign and excited to be so. >> mike barnicle, the obama campaign, putting the governor out today. they see this as a real issue for them to drive against mitt romney. >> it is a real issue against mitt romney. governor patrick will further cement that by explaining to us how governor romney's role with senator kennedy in putting this health care bill together helped enhance the quality of life in massachusetts and why he ought to take more responsibility for it nationwide. what do you think? >> well, look, he has something to be proud of. but he was part of a broad coalition, mike you know this,

that included business people, it included labor and it included democratic legislature, democratic united states senator in ted kennedy. patient advocates. a broad coalition that came together to invent health care reform and then stuck together to refine it as we've gone along. that has been key. the governor's contribution was the individual mandate. which i'll tell you personally, i was a little uncomfortable with it when i first heard about it. it's a basic insurance idea to spread the risk as equal as possible. that has been a key part and successful part of our experiment here. >> governor patrick, it's john heilman here. >> i want to drill down on that question a little bit more. this is -- there are a lot of people in the country who disapprove of the mandate. but it seems to me in practice for most people once they live in that system, they look at it like the same way they're

required to get auto insurance. they get used to it quickly. are there people six years later, is there anyone who complains about this issue that you hear from in terms of constituent? >> the uptake or the acceptance of that notion has gotten broader and easier for folks. there was a penalty, i think it's called in the tax code if you don't have insurance. that number has gone steadily down. it's over 40% in the last couple of years. by the way, health care reform here polls in the 60-plus percent favorability. it's interesting because national health care reform, the affordable care act is about 50%. i think people have a lot more experience with health care reform here. as they get more experience nationally, the approval of that will go. >> governor, we have with us editor emeritus of the new york times. a title we just gave to bill keller. >> i heard that earlier.

>> editor emeritus. >> i think the supreme court will decide whether to toss out some or all of the affordable care act, obama care so-called. if i can get -- leaving aside the question whether that's a good or a bad thing for the american people, how does that affect the way the campaign will carry forward on this issue? >> first of all, let me answer, mr. editor emeritus on behalf of massachusetts, i'm not sure what it will do for us if they go in that, if the supreme court goes against the individual mandate. it depends on how broadly they might rule. i think the individual mandate is fine and secure here in massachusetts. i think nationally, it does raise some questions but we don't know what all those questions are yet. i mean, this is a value statement in my view. it's about the notion that health is a public good and that everyone deserves access to affordable high quality care. we end up paying for things one way or another.

that's the bizarre conundrum of health care. if we don't do this through insurance and preventive care and lower cost settings, we end up paying for it in higher costs, emergency room care at a later stage when care is more expensive. it's a sensible idea. it's something that the congress has, if the supreme court's precedence means anything, has ample authority to do it. the affordable care act will be upheld. >> governor, thank you so much. great to see you. we're going to be up in boston. >> i hear you're coming. i hope i get to see you. >> we hope to see you. it's april 20th and it's sort of surprising. fenway is actually celebrating the 100th anniversary of their park by allowing a aaa ball team to play. >> stop it. >> mike, can why don't they have a professional team playing? >> mike, you be nice. >> thank you for having me. i see my time is up.

>> thank you. >> thank you very much i. bill, what happens? what do you think the impact is. you talk about hysteria earlier regarding the trayvon case. what happens if health care reform is overturned by the supreme court? is it really the end of the world as we know it as your editorial page says? will people be jumping from tall buildings and dogs and cats sleeping together or will we just figure out another funding mechanism? >> well, figuring out another funding mechanism assumes that you have a functional congress. at the moment we don't. it's a little bit the end of health care for the foreseeable future i'm afraid. politically, i don't know exactly how it plays out. you can argue that it's better for obama if the supreme court throws it out and romney isn't campaigning for the next several months on repeal, repeal, repeal. basically, i think being ruled

unconstitutional, having your centerpiece ruled unconstitutional. that has to be a bad thing for a president. >> john, what are you hearing from obama campaign? >> it nerms of the politics of it? ? terms of the health care bilk ov over -- winning is better than losing. they would rather win than lose. they see a way to campaign on it if they lose. i think the president's said pretty clearly, he's going to campaign and criticize the court and the campaign will try to o use that as an issue for the base. i think the president believes in the policy and he thinks we need something to close to universal coverage, ideally universal coverage. we should join the advanced democracies and be able to cover everyone in the country. the president would feel it's a huge loss to have spent a year and a half to get the law passed and have it overturned. >> on the sixth anniversary of mitt romney standing next to ted

kennedy and signing this health care bill. i am so surprised. you brought this up earlier, through this entire crazy republican process, that one candidate -- i certainly would have done it. i was shown the picture of mitt romney, this isn't the shot. mitt romney turning smile at ted kennedy and i would have played it over. that's what everybody predicted would happen. nobody had the messaging discipline to do that against mitt romney. >> clearly, in retrospect, they were so involved in mutual loathing, each campaign that they never even got to that. like you, i thought that picture, even the clip that we showed coming into this segment about governor romney talking about working with senator kennedy would have been run over and over and over in iowa and new hampshire and elsewhere. an exclusive first look at the new issue of "time "requesti" the new issue of "time "requesti" ". magazine. keep it right here on morning

joe. ♪

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north korea has said they're planning on doing a test launch of their newly developed long-range missile. wow. in fact, we were told just

before the show that the launch took place. we have the footage. here's footage of the test just released by pyongyang state television. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> okay. the real story now at 37 past the hour. weather conditions are expected o keep north korea from carrying out a long-range rocket launch today. the reclusive government has been preparing to shoot a satellite into orbit for the last several days, but officials in washington say the task is really meant to try out missile technology. nbc's richardening he will has been covering the developments and got a firsthand look at the main mission control room. with a handful of engineers and only six telephones, western experts say there's a good chance the satellite will never

make it into orbit. another headline this morning. facing reelection next year, new jersey governor chris christie is speaking out against his state's public education system stressing the need for reform even if it costs him his job. take a look. >> i will not -- i love it. i have a great time every day. but i'm not your cup of tea, vote for somebody ems. i'm never going to pretend to be anything other than what i am. i'm going to fight for those kids in those failing schools because i could have been one of them. i was born in newark and i lived there until i was five years old. my parents borrowed a thousand dollars each from each of my grandmother's to put a $2,000 downpayment on a house in livingston. they did it because they wanted me to get the best public education i could. i tell you, it makes me wonder about how many kids are in newark, jersey city and irving ton and camden and trenton who

have all the god given gifts to be governor of new jersey someday but won't get there because we don't have the guts to stand up to the educational establishment in the state who wants to protect the status quo. i reject that. and if it costs me my political career, so be it. >> a recent quinnipiac poll shows christy approval rating at 59%. the highest mark since taking office in 2009. christy received 64% approval from the state independence. impressive. >> six months, saying things were rough with chris christie. he was talking off camera at 35% the same way he's talking on camera right now. we all heard him. he's figured out how to do something that pays off politically that scott walker in wisconsin and john kasich in ohio have tried to do. >> it's pretty easy to do.

the four state senators from new york state running with opposition from conservative groups, governor christie, governor kasich shall you mentioned, president barack obama if you stand up and say i might be a one-term guy here, this is what i believe. i'm going to roll the dice. here we go. most people say, yeah, i'll go with that. the guy is telling me a version. i like that. >> why is chris tchristie, bill keller, why is he at 59 percent in new jersey and scott walker is facing recall in wisconsin and john kasich is in the low 40s? >> because he's got authenticity. i mean, it's a cliche in politics but sometimes they're true. i don't know the people in the end who vote for the guy they want to have a beer with. no question that these three guys, chris christie is the guy you want to have a beer with and you might stick around for two or three. >> yes. up next, we reveal the new issue of time magazine. keep it right here on morning

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you need an ally. ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense. beautiful shot of washington, d.c. a sunny day. at 44 past the hour on this thursday morning. joining us now time magazine managing editor. he's here to reveal the latest issue of sk"time." >> it's the most exclusive club. a club of ex-presidents. including barack obama who is still in office. it's an adaptation from the book by nancy gibbs and michael duffy called the president's club about how these guys have over the years helped each other a lot more than they've hurt each

other. once upon a time, they were rivals, but now because of what they've experienced, because of the act of sitting in the oval office, what unites them is more important than what separates them. >> give us a great example. >> it's interesting. we start out circling around the obama presidency and they were fighting like ferrets and yet, if you look at barack obama's new campaign video, 17-minute campaign video. the biggest star is bill clinton. he asked bill clinton to appear in it. he consults with bush 41 and 43 about different things. the fantastic part in the piece is that after the killing of osama bin laden, the first two calls that barack obama made were to bush 41 and bill clinton. >> you know, obviously, you talk to people inside the white house and they're actually grateful that george w. bush has been as respectful in retirement as he has. in fact, sticking his neck out on the line on the auto bailout,

which doesn't help george w. bush's own party, but certainly helped the president. 43, we've all criticized him. he's done a lot of things wrong, but he has stayed out of the -- >> we think of the presidency as being about individuals. it's actually an institution. george bush 43 has great vein ration for that. which his father held. he's not doing it to benefit barack obama per se. he's doing it to benefit the strength and integrity of the institution of the presidency. >> talk about jimmy carter. carter, of course, has always been a bit of a loner. he was an outsider when he came to washington. he still seems to be an outsider here. i think some remarkable interviews, got remarkable things out of president carter. >> there's a lovely story in the piece and the book where obama says to bush 41, can you get the

gang together before i go into office and the bush administration said, you mean including jimmy carter who spent the last eight years criticizing us every day and obama said yes. they all came to the white house and i don't know if you remember that picture where they're all lined up and carter is like standing to the side like he's an orderly or something rather than -- there it is. at the same time, you know, obama has called on carter to make that -- take that mission to north korea. you know, he gave him a very kind of strict agreement about the things that he could say and couldn't say. because they wanted to keep him on the reservation. obviously, carter wants to make a difference. i think it's a question of corralling him in the right direction. >> president carter, also, by the way, if you've read jimmy carter's diaries, i don't know if anybody has looked at those, very revealing. it makes you look at the man, i think, with a great deal of respect. what he went through over those

four years. but president carter also saying, you know, a lot of people say i'm a better ex-president than i was a president. president carter talks about that. >> and he kind of invented the ex-presidency, right? he talks in the piece about how, when he did go to the white house, what carter talked to the other -- to obama about was not about policy or foreign policy. he talked about what it's like raising a daughter in the white house. that's what he could impart to him. >> inject one skeptical note here. on the third floor of the new york times we have an enormous blown up photograph of george bush and bill clinton grinning like best of friends. every time i walk past that, i go, right. these are type a alpha dog personalities, the most competitive you'll find anywhere. a lot of them got where they are by sticking pins in the other guys. there must be this at least close to the surface sense of

kind of resentment and i'm better than he is. i mean, the lovey-dovey stuff seems a little overdone. >> do you have this problem with the editors of the new york times? he knows of what he speaks. >> what could he possibly be thinking of? >> of course, we have no rivalry either. of course, they have -- they fought to the death practically. during the course of these campaigns, there was a terrible animosity. there's a feeling that once they're past it, the animosities haven't died away but there's something that unites them in retirement where they understand what the pull of the office is, what the pressures are and in a way, they've become -- their allegiance comes to each other and the institution rather than to party. by the way, there's still -- spending all of their time protecting their legacy. they want to do that within the confines of each other's careers too. >> isn't it for his story, the most fascinating stories to read

are the stories of harry truman and dwight eisenhower and the ride to the inauguration and th pictures of ike with lbj and, of course, on and on. >> lovely line in there, joe. because ike was a huge help to both kennedy and then lbj. and we have a great quote from lbj saying ike was the best chief of staff i ever had. >> yeah. and ike also, if you read richard reid's biography on kennedy, kennedy was so, so in awe of what was going on. and ike kept going, over here, over here. telling him how to set up his staff and the pyramid structure. but you have all of these back and forths. and, wow. and you see it here, also, of course. this week. >> oh, right. well, in fact, the -- you know, kennedy -- you know, he had -- a little bit of hubris, as we all know in his relationship to

eisenhower. it took him a while to realize what value eisenhower could be. in fact, i think kennedy's first call after the bay of pigs was to eisenhower, and i think he probably didn't use him as much as he could have. lbj, when he succeeded kennedy, realized how valuable eisenhower was. and eisenhower was, you know -- was a statesman. and his -- his idea was, i want to help the country and i want to help you, regardless of party. >> i want to ask you, bill keller. eisenhower talking about -- i think this is a guy that has been overlooked by historians over the past 50 years or so. when you go back and look at what he did from 1953 to 1961, and that he was able to guide the country through peace and prosperity, staring down our allies during the suez crisis, in retrospect, this guy keeps looking bigger bigger, doesn't he? >> i think that's true.

and he tends not to make the lists of the greatest presidents of all-time. and i agree with you. i think that's an oversight. >> mika, really, we're over the top there, but mika really wants to talk about something other than presidents. >> okay. >> it's very good. about fast food restaurants making some changes. >> yes. >> i like it. >> and then the -- what is the term for it? like the chipoltes, where they're not fast food, they're something new and in between. i was there last night with my family. >> how did it go? >> very good. the new cover of "time" is the world's most exclusive club. we could talk about this for the next hour. >> i can see that. >> you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. the chevy cruze eco also offers 42 mpg on the highway. actually, it's cruze e-co, not ec-o.

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♪ still ahead, the great carole king joins us on-set. also, mitt romney weighs in on the so-called war on women, accusing the white house economic team of falling down on the job. that's next on "morning joe." ♪ fiona here was just telling me that ford dealers sell a new

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you suggested that whoever the nominee should go rogue, familiar term for you, in terms of their choice for vp. >> topping my list is allen west. i love that he has that military experience. he is a public servant, willing to serve for the right reasons. >> what percentage of the american legislature do you think are card-carrying or international -- >> that's a good question. >> i believe there's about 78 to

81 members of the democrat party that are members of the communist parties. >> good morning. welcome back to "morning joe." it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on-set, mike barnicle, john heilemann, and dan seenor. >> way too positive yesterday with bubba. i heard so many people say that was one of the best interviews here, because of bubba. >> you did a great job. >> no, i didn't do a great job. stop it. >> it's like saying, you know, just ask him. >> no, it was mike who asked the question, got him to, you know, talk about his dad. and he is a spectacular guy. but -- >> he really is. nice boy. >> let's take you to the other side of the state. >> oh-oh. >> and go negative and talk about allen west. >> what's going on there? >> 78 -- first of all -- >> vice president allen west.

>> yeah, vice president allen west. >> soon to be second in the line of succession. >> i like allen west. >> i'm just curious, who are these three members still on the fence, not sure if they're commies or not. seriously, he's comparing members of congress, dan senor. >> you know -- >> no, hold on. let's talk about this. with the republicans on the set. let's talk about this out. he's connecting american legislators to a movement that was responsible for upward to 100 million deaths in the 20th century between joseph stalin and tung and gulags, and still today, from china to cuba, still the most repressive, the most

evil political movement in the history of man responsible for more deaths than any other movement. and allen west is comparing american legislators to that movement. saying they're part of that movement. now, is there a responsibility of somebody in the republican party to stand up and point at him and say, that is not an acceptable norm of behavior in our political party? and you must go out and apologize to these 78 to 81 american public servants who you have defamed and compared to joseph stalin and malsa tung and polpot. >> you mean other than sarah palin. i don't think we should put too much of a spotlight on it. we elevate that rhetoric. i think we simply dismiss it. >> that's a good point. or if you're a staff member, you

could dial it back or retract t right? and i have their statement. it might help. i think it will help. >> but as we get closer to the election, statements like these will be brushed over. and i don't know whether -- this is going to be a swing state. and other groups are going to be throwing money. the national republican party is throwing money there. but before they give him a dime, he needs to come out and apologize for this. the party needs to have clean hands going into the fall. and it just -- this disturbs me. >> yeah, i think it's hot rhetoric in a hot campaign. in a very sort of decentralized campaign, where members of both parties can pop off. this is an example. it should be -- >> it's decentralized until it's central ooezed. it's decentralized until the republican party decides to give money. and i know the guy, and i like the guy, but this is unacceptable. >> mike is going to agree with me. >> go ahead, mike. that, i would submit, is one of the real elements of poison in

our politics today. the fact that the guy says what he says, and in view of the political environment that we're all part of today, it's sort of viewed as, oh, well, these things happen. people do say these things, instead of someone, whether it's a republican, whether it's mitt romney, the header of the republican party or any other republican or any other person in public life, doesn't stand up and say, watch this clip. watch a man's mind go right off the trolly tracks. no one does that. >> the "new york times" is reporting the romney campaign is launching a new strategy aimed at closing the gender gap against president obama. recent polling puts the president up 20 points against romney among female voters. now he's looking to turn the tables on the white house. listen. >> the real war on women is being waged by the president's failed economic policies. we -- i don't know whether each one of you saw these. but these are just some

statistics which show just how severe the war on women has been by virtue of the president's failed policies. the number of job -- this is an amazing statistic. the percentage of jobs lost by women in the president's three years, three-and-a-half years, 92.3% of all the jobs lost during the obama years have been lost by women. 92.3%. now, the president says, oh, i didn't cause this recession. that's true. he just made it worse. and made it last longer. and because it lasted longer, more and more women lost jobs. >> wow. >> wow. >> first of all, can i just say -- because we were -- we've spent time talking about the silliness of american politics. can we get serious for a second? he's got a really good tan. he looks good. >> oh, god. >> he really does. he looks the same as ten years ago. >> that's true. >> wow. cryogeni

cryogenics. this war on women thing. i had people on the set last week. war on women. >> unbelievable. >> tell me exactly what is romney's war on women? and then they start talking about a virginia law, which i condemned, but never got passed. and an alabama law. on and on and on. but this is the talking point. they're going to stick on the war on women. >> and you can see two things. one, how romney just tries to bring it right back to the economy and how defensive the campaign gets when he tries to refocus on the economy and jobs and how women were affected and it's the debate about stats and how many jobs are actually lost -- >> it's actually a good line of attack for the romney campaign. >> and you saw how prickly the obama campaign got in defense dealing with it. and then you also see for the last few months, we've been dealing with some, you know, some crazy land in the republican primary. and that's where all the focus has been. all right? you haven't seen crazy land in the democratic party, because it hasn't been getting much attention, because they haven't had a primary. but once they're people start getting attention and popping off, like last night on cnn,

hillary rosen, not just declaring the war on women. you want to play the clip, all right. not just declaring war on women, but ann romney has never had a job. so now it's like a war on jobs. and then paul on, who is advising the largest romney super pac saying mitt romney only had 11 or 12 vice presidents who were women who worked when he was there. i don't know what the context is for that statistic. but i was amused when i heard that statistic. and i'm involved with the romney campaign, but i haven't gotten any talking points or data since they popped off last night. but i was amused thinking about meg whitman got her start working under mitt romney. she says he's her mentor. her -- the rise of her career, romney was indispensable for. when he left bane consulting, he turned over to a women. beth myers, his deputy campaign manager is a woman. all of the senior officials in his life. >> i know you work for them. >> i actually said -- i'm involved with the campaign, and i've not gotten these talking

points. >> you're condemning him for talking points? by the way, really quickly, let me just say that the obama campaign does need to be careful about this, because they have been attacked from the inside for not having the best environment in the white house. regarding women. now, we know valerie and other people who have pushed back on that. i'm saying there are stories out there that say that he has a club, he was forced to ask a staff member to go out and golf with him, because he only gofls with men, plays basketball with men. women have said they felt -- i'm saying, this is something that i don't think women at home care about. and i don't think they care about it, because they care more about having to be the main bread winner in the house, unemployment, all these other -- >> having done the panel on women by the council on women and girls last week, pot calling the kettle black, at the white

house, this administration has done more for women -- >> she just hits the refresh button on her laptop. >> during a conference call with reporters, on this note, the romney campaign seemed caught off guard when they were asked whether or not mitt romney supported the lilly ledbetter act. >> you know what he said? he said my wife every time we go to palm beach, she loves wearing lily. and mine does too. >> they were attacked and clueless about how the president's signature law that pertains to equal pay for women. it's kind of a problem. take a listen. >> does governor romney support the lilly ledbetter act? [ silence ] >> we'll get back to you on that. >> what, you are digging down to campaign aides now? that's all you got? >> let me try it on you. hold on. >> the campaign ad responding to sam stein, who i like, but talk about talking points. >> come on.

>> hold on. i'm going to try it on you, joe. >> later in the day. >> boys, be quiet for a second. >> okay. >> do you like puppies? [ silence ] >> oh, god. >> let me get back to you. >> later in the campaign, he said he does support equal pay. but conservative blogs pounce on the comment made by democratic strategist dnc adviser and our friend, hillary rosen about romney's wife, ann. >> what you have is mitt romney running around the country saying, well, you know, my wife tells me that what women really care about are economic issues. and when i listen to my wife, that's what i'm hearing. guess what, his wife has actually never worked a day in her life. she has never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are facing in terms of how do we feed our kids, how do we send them to school and why are we worried about their future. >> ann romney who joined twitter

yesterday responded in a tweet, quote, i made a choice to stay at home and raise five boys. believe me, it was hard work. that was an unfortunate statement. >> but hillary, while she got -- >> i like hillary. >> she was involved in the president's health care panel. but i don't know how tight of a link there is between hillary rosen and -- she certainly supports president obama. >> she is an adviser to the democratic national committee. >> to the democratic national committee. but it's not like she is in the administration. so i think the more important part of this is john, there has always been a great divide. and i've always thought people in the mainstream media and new york and washington have always presumed women support democrats. because we are around a lot of working women, out of bounds. whereas you know, if you just look at the numbers, it's amazing the divide between professional women on one side, unmarried women or married women

without children, predominantly democratic. the other side of the divide, married women with children who stay at home, predominantly republican. and more conservative. there is -- and i think we see that great divide right there between hillary rosen and ann romney. i think they represent two equally powerful forces in american politics. >> yeah. it's a cultural divide, and it's a geographic divide, and there is a distinction there. there is clearly a divide between those things. i would say that two points, they go in different directions. one is, there just is no up side for any -- the democrats have -- there is a gender gap. it's been true for a long time. presidential politics, democrats dominate with women voters. republicans dominate with men voters. >> right. >> and the democrats right now have a larger gender gap, larger lead than they normally do. there is no up side to criticizing the choices of any women for democrats to attack women for -- to suggest or imply or in any way denigrate the

choices of women to stay home and raise kids as opposed to going to the work force. there is just no political up side to that. it's a silly thing for hillary to do. it doesn't help the cause at all. on the other hand, i think the place for hillary is not a divide -- there are a lot of divides between stay-at-home moms and working women, cultural, geographic, lots of things. there is a widespread support for equal pay among women. >> oh, sure. >> across the country in every kind of category. so for the romney campaign to not -- and i agree, it's not mitt romney, but for them not to know, in a conference call they called on this issue to not know whether the candidate supports the president's first piece of legislation he passed on this issue of equal pay, it's absurd for them not to know the answer to that question. especially since he's in support of it. >> coming up next, how to motivate people. how to admit mistakes. >> what? >> i think i'm going to step off. and how to work on no sleep. that's just some of the advice packed into bloomberg business week's annual how-to issue with

insight from people like rahm emanuel, martha stewart and our own willie geist. also this hour, we'll take a trip down music's memory lane with legendary singer and song writer carole king, now an author. >> she is great. >> out with her new memoir. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning, mika. around the east coast, temperatures have been warm. and we have been very dry this spring. we have been seeing fires popping up it seems like on a daily basis. this one very impressive from central and northern new jersey. it was mostly in brushy area. but look at that flames, about 20-foot high, really dwarf that firefighter. no injuries reported and the firefighters eventually got control of the blaze yesterday. as i mentioned, california usualliy sees stuff like that. it's raining in california this morning, probably the worst weather in the nation this morning. shifting out of san francisco over the top of sacramento. late this afternoon, we also see strong thunderstorms, maybe an isolated tornado or two. western portions of kansas, oklahoma and northwest section

ises of texas. so your forecast today, another dry day, everywhere, east of the mississippi river. we'll watch severe storms possible late today, and i was mentioning how dry it is. georgia, the drought continues to get worse, and no rain in sight. just more beautiful weather down there in atlanta. you want the beautiful weather, but of course we don't want our lawns to be brown all summer. you're watching "morning joe." we're brewed by starbucks. hi, i just switched jobs, and i want to roll over my old 401(k) into a fidelity ira. man: okay, no problem. it's easy to get started; i can help you with the paperwork. um...this green line just appeared on my floor. yeah, that's fidelity helping you reach your financial goals.

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♪ you were captured recently by tmz in a parking garage having a little bit of a meltdown. >> sorry. sorry. [ bleep ] larry david. >> i had a ticket, okay, and they told me the first two hours are free. >> yes. >> i tried to put the ticket in, but it -- you know, it wouldn't fit. >> yeah. >> in the slot. and it said you owe $5. and i'm yelling, i got it -- i got two hours for free! you know. [ laughter ] and i get no answer. you know. >> it's a machine. >> it's a machine. >> i get no anticipatswer. >> a lot of cars pile up so i thought i need to get out and talk to them. [ laughter ] >> what are you yelling? >> i can't do it -- i don't know how to work the machine! >> 20 past the hour. larry david last night on conen,

explaining how to get out of a parking garage. that never goes well. here with us now, with the annual how-to issue, editor of "bloomberg business week" josh. >> we're not going to burey the lead. how do you get by without sleep? >> we went to willie geist. he said he lies to his body, tells his body it's a different time. comes to work. he has a croissanwich. that helps. he says he does exercise and wears a lululemon singlet. very tight, apparently. and then sometime in the afternoon, barnicle comes by and gives hem a massage. >> oh, okay. >> the other thing he does, lies to us about being here. notice he's not here. >> where is he? >> well, we don't want to give -- die vil j that information. >> he's sleeping.

he's power-sleeping for an entire week. >> josh, obviously, you're talking about highly successful people. a how-to guide. and one of the things that, you know, mika and i get by on four to five hours of sleep a night. and you talk to a lot of business people, a lot of politicians, margaret thatcher, you know, read her memoir. she got by on four hours of sleep. rudy guiliani gets four hours of sleep. it is a sleep-deprived class of people. >> it's a zero sum game, right? 24 hours in a day no matter how long you work. cheating the hour here, the hour there, finding the way to be more productive. we could write about productivity all of the time in our magazine and it would sell, sell, sell. and a lot of what we're trying to do in this issue is get people -- these little tips. business people are really competitive. they don't love to share. >> what's the most important

tip? of the magazine? >> well, you know, there is an array. but i would say it starts at the beginning. we have reed hastings -- >> so funny. >> employees happy, how to make them free. one is not to have a vacation calendar. let them motivate themselves, let them manage themselves. don't have golden handcuffs, don't give them options for years and years, unhappy years down the road, but staying just because they've got something to do. there's tips like that across the entire array. >> ooh, you have one on how to talk to a republican. >> well, we have how to talk to a republican and how to talk to a democrat. and i'm grateful to judd and ron for participating. we went to a lot of people and a lot of people's staffs said, are you kidding? we're not doing that. we're not going to tell our constituents that we actually talk to the other side. >> that's pathetic. >> gosh. >> so really quickly, what were the tips? how did ron widen say you talk to a republican? >> so ron widen says basically

you've got to go in and refer that governance is different than campaigning and the senate is a little easy they're been congress. i thought judd gregg's tip was terrific. you've got to get to know their dog. ted kennedy had splash, kebt conrad has dakota. once you get to know the dog, you have something to talk about. >> i love it. judd gregg is a smart guy. >> what i'm interested in, one of the pieces is how to motivate people. you went to rahm emanuel for tips on how to motivate people. am i wrong in thinking that rahm said multiple f-bombs, that's how you motivate people? >> jump on the desk, scream? >> to be honest, that's kind of what we were hoping for. but what we got was more nuanced. rahm obviously knows how to get people pissed off and at the same time, appeal to go their practical side. said as mayor, i've got an open door. but if you come in and bring me a problem, you're going to get kicked out. what i want is somebody to bring me the beginning of a solution and then we can sit down and talk about it. and my job is to find other

people who are going to make the solution better for you. it wasn't what we expected out of rahm. >> can we get a little bit on how to weaponize office supplies? >> we can get more than that. yeah. we saw this video online. and it's just -- it's brilliant engineering, and anybody who sat in a meeting for more than ten minutes with office supplies handy, and they hate the meeting knows this feeling. if i can just take this pencil and turn it into some sort of cross bow, this meeting would go a lot better. so we found an engineer who actually knows how to do that. and i think we do have a caveat, which you have to talk to hr before weaponizing office supplies. but if they're fine with it, you know, here's how to do it. how to work with your spouse. >> yeah. countries toe. >> how do you do that? >> well, it's really about the balance between the two of them. christo who obviously did the gates of new york city. i would say he's not the most grounded person you've ever met. >> no, he's not. he's not a details guy. and his wife was a very details-oriented person. so they matched up really well.

but they also fought all of the time. >> how to admit a mistake. >> okay, we really need to hear about this one. >> ed hochuli, the fakously muscled nfl referee, made a huge mistake, denver a couple years ago. and his guidance is admit immediately, embrace it, get it over with up front. and then your credibility is restored so much more quickly that you can go on with your job. and when people ask you about the mistake, say, yeah, that was a pretty terrible mistake. >> this is a fascinating one. how to compete with amazon. >> so we went to the line of guilt, and amazon is a great place to go when you know what you want. you know what you want, you type it in, search function is great, you see it, you're done. but not everybody shops that way. and women in particular want to be wowed. they want to be seduced by the products. so what she says is, play to amazon's weakness, show people stuff they didn't know they wanted. surprise them.

>> so here's another great one. how to build a web following. a lot of people obsessed in it politics and media and business on building a web following. how do you do it? >> don't be a pimp, is basically the answer. don't constantly accepted out your stuff. don't always demand things. >> subtlety. >> it doesn't have to be transactional. you can sometimes just be yourself. and particularly on twitter. you really want to just be yourself and entertain people. you don't always have to push a link to someone else. >> how to win a twitter fight. >> yes. how do you do that? >> don't start it. >> don't start it, and once you are in it, get out. go to another medium, go to a blog post where you can write something longer than the pissy thing you might want to say to the person. >> on that front, it's fascinating, i had a guy who told me one time, we're having dinner, he said he went to some seminar, some online seminar, and i'm like, who wastes their time doing that. and then he tells me. he said, if you say something

positive, the response, this guy, says, is five, six, seven, eight times better than if you say something negative. is and so i was about to get off of twitter, i was at 30,000 followers, i was angry, because people were constantly attacking and we were -- so i said, you know what, instead of having twitter piss me off, i'm going to talk about the things i love. i started talking about soccer, i started talking with about the beatles, i started talking about music, pop culture. i ignored the attacks. and followers doubled in like a month. and i actually looked forward to going on twitter. because i wasn't -- i wasn't fighting the extremists on both sides. i was talking about things i love. >> yeah, afinney is always nicer, right? you tell people stuff you like, you tell people stuff about your day and they come and get you. whereas if you're using it to take pot shots, first of all, you've got to be pretty good to take pot shots in 140 characters, but also, it's a lame way to have your say. >> just before you go, howard schultz on how to make coffee at

home. >> and you start, of course, with the "morning joe" brew. at starbucks. but after you have that, what do you do? >> interestingly, he did not say starbucks coffee. what he said was -- so he uses a french press. he is very meticulous. >> oh. >> do not buy preground coffee, buy the beans. if you put them in the freezer, let them set out for 30 minutes, essential oils are released. >> that might be too much information. >> he went deep. >> he did. >> and he pose for this great picture of him with the french press. we have something like 300 frames if you guys want to come by the office later. >> i'm going to have to see that. >> that's okay. >> howard. >> let's go look at that. >> we'll make an animate gif. >> tmi. the new issue of "bloomberg" how-to guide. josh. up next, carole king and her influences throughout the year.

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♪ ♪ because you make me feel welcome back to "morning joe." here with us now, legendary singer and song writer, carole king. she is out. >> big. >> with her new memoir, "a natural woman" and it is so great to see you.

>> thank you. >> and have you back on the show. >> thank you. and author! >> author! you're now an author. >> singer/song writer and author. congratulations. >> thank you. >> isn't it great to hand in the manuscript? >> it is a wonderful feeling. and it was a couple of days ago, it was actually published. i now have the phrase, pub date. >> yay! >> unbelievable. so you started at a very early age, writing songs, playing piano. one of the big shocks here, for most people, you never sang in public. until 1970. >> that's pretty true. that's right. if i did, it was with somebody else next to me. i didn't do it alone. >> obviously, you exploded soon after that. what was it like, putting down the pen as a song writer, and getting in front of a microphone? >> part of the thing was, i never did put down the pen as a song writer. i was singing my own songs.

and i always had to sing my own songs, initially, to present them to other artists, which is why we made demos. and i would sing on the demos. >> right. >> and there's actually an album, which i think mika has before her. >> yes. >> of those demos that's going to be out in a couple of weeks. but to get to your question about what was it like, i was terrified. i was terrified. >> wow. >> and there's a story in the book where james taylor, who had always seen what i guess other people came to see, and i came to see, that he thought i should be a performer. and so one night we were doing a concert, and i was his side man. i was playing background for him. and he said -- and i want you to do up on the roof tonight. and i'm like, i can't do it. i can't do it. well, he introduced me, he told people all of the songs i had written, and he sort of set it up. i call the chapter preloved. because he made the audience

love me before they heard me. and i'm so gratelful for that and after that i broke through. >> so let's go through some of the songs. and one that was especially special to you, "natural woman" and aretha franklin. is that one a cover of one of your favorite songs? >> it's hard to have a favorite cover, but i have to say, that was probably the ultimate, oh, my, god moment when i first heard her recording of that. because prior to that, i had made my demo, which is on that legendary demos album. and that was the last i heard about it. it was like we were in limbo, is she going to do it, is she going to like it. we didn't find out until the day jerry wexler called us and said, and -- and by the way, it was his title. it was jerry wexler's title, i'm looking for a hit for aretha, i've got a great title for you, "natural woman" you'll see him as a third writer on the song for the very well-deserved reason. and jerry calls us and says come

on in and hear this. and what else do you say when you hear that for the first time? and you're the song writer. >> wow. >> bob dylan said the first time he heard jimi hendrix do "all along the watch tower," he said, not my song anymore. it's his. i mean, somebody -- takes it and owns it. but that has to be so gratifying for you. >> it's an unbelievable feeling. and i felt that so many times when james recorded "you've got a friend" he remembers that he asked me -- we remember it differently. i don't remember that -- he said, i asked her, and she was very generous and said, of course, because it was already on my album. but i don't remember that at all. i do remember peter asher surprising me with it, and saying, i would like you to have a listen to this. and he puts on james' version of "you've got a friend." oh, my god, just a quieter calmer, oh, my god moment. >> what about "pleasant valley

sunday?" you wrote that about your existence in the suburbs of jersey. >> jerry's lyrics. very important distinction. >> jerry's lyrics. but what was that like hearing -- hearing the monkeys sending that. that took the monkeys to a whole new level. >> the monkeys, as we all know, have sort of proven to stand the test of time, and they were actually better than people gave them credit for at the time. one of the things you hear on the monkeys' version is -- ♪ i better bet you can't play that. it's an amazing lick. and i'm not sure if mike invented it or chip taylor, one of the two. they were well-produced and added so much. and all of the ♪ ba-ba-baaa and harmonies and now i incorporate it. there is a story you talk about, from a working class neighborhood in brooklyn to being invited back to the dakota

apartments with johnnie back in 1975. and all of your brushes with john weren't positive. >> no. the first time i met him, he was -- i was at the warwick hotel in 1965 and i somehow got up into the room where the beatles were having a -- you know, a scene, i guess is what it was. and i met all of the other beatles and they all knew who i was. they actually were aware of me as a song writer. and when i met john, i don't even remember what he said, but he was so rude to me. and that -- i left. i was like, okay. and then years later, when i met yoko and she invited me and my then boyfriend to their apartment, i thought, okay, i'm going to ask him. do you remember when you met me at the warwick and he said remind. and i said you were very rude to me. why was that? and he said, do you really want

to know? which meant that he did remember. and then he told me, it was because he was intimidated by me and jerry, because we were such great song writers, you know? >> oh, my gosh. >> isn't that unbelievable. >> unbelievable. >> and they, of course -- one of the first songs they recorded "change". >> yes. your knowledge of musical history, man. >> there you go. >> in this book, obviously, we're going to read about where all these incredible songs came from in terms of about you and your life and who you are and who you were. i'm looking at a picture of your mother, though. >> she was amazing. >> glamorous. >> yeah. yeah. in a big way. >> tell us about her. >> well, my mother -- you know, i'm still -- my mother is gone. she passed away in december 2010. can't get the words out. you know, we all have -- we women all have issues with your mothers at one stage or another in our life. toward the end of her life, we

became really close. and now that she is gone, i see her elegance in a way i never saw it. that photo shows her elegance. and i look back and i see that she had it all along. and i was never open to it. >> so we had an exercise this past week on the greatest -- five greatest song writers, american song writers, you were -- >> with "vanity fair." >> you were one of them and we were talking about you and i also picked brian wilson and bob dylan, obviously. who were the two or three song writers that influenced you the most? >> that you think are the best? >> well, i'm older than that group, certainly, among the group. but richard rodgers and oscar hemm hemmersteen. rogers, his sense of melody, keeping melody simple, and the way he could modulate into complicated chords, and you don't know that, because the melody is sort of floating over it. that's something that i do, that i consciously absorbed and is

now part of who i am. i would say him and classical music and show tunes in general were a big influence. my mom's collection. >> all right. >> "west side story." oh, my god. >> unbelievable. all right. >> "natural woman." carole king. thank you so much. it is always good to have you on. >> thank you. >> thanks for coming in. more "morning joe" in just a moment. members of the american postal worker's union

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today, facebook acquired s instagram. how do you feel about that merger? i don't know anything about it, i'm sorry. >> today, facebook acquired instagram. how do you feel about that merger? >> about which? >> today facebook acquired instagram. how do you feel about that merger? >> i am 98 years old. >> how do you feel about the merger between facebook and i t instagram. >> um -- >> are you speaking english? >> i am not into any of that. >> oh -- >> i'm not technical. don't know anything about -- about this new stuff. >> i'm not even sure i know what facebook is. >> i know what you mean. anyway, i can't answer that. >> oh -- i'm undecided on that one. >> hey, mike. i've got a question for you. >> yeah, yeah. facebook acquired instagram. how far do you feel about that.

>> i'm 97. i'm not on the facebook. i don't know anything about the facebook. and brian shactman over at cnbc, i've got to tell you, i am so drained by what has happened to the old team this week i don't even care about business before the bell. how do you like that, brian? >> i hope you're not having your scotch too early, mr. barnicle. i guess looking at the five losses tied with the cubs as the most losses in baseball. they just can't hit. but i'll be watching josh bacon and david price go at it tomorrow. a nice 60-degree day and i'll have peanuts and a beer in my hand. so i don't care for tomorrow. >> i'll be there. >> listen, with the facebook thing, jimmy kimmel is going to be old someday, and someone is going to make fun of him. stock futures are up, guys, but weakening a little bit. jobless claims ticking up, 13,000 to 380, still below 400 but confirming the weak jobs report, we have a bit of a softening. trade deficit was better. wholesale inflation wasn't too bad. so we have some mixed data in the marketplace.

and talk about old people, barnicle, john, what do you use for search? when you have to search something on the interweb -- >> i use a flashlight. >> i believe there is a site called google, i believe. i'm on that one. >> so you use the google. >> yeah, i use the google machine. >> it's interesting, the yahoo has fallen so hard -- i'm still kind of a yahoo user and i feel like a dinosaur. they're now behind bing. microsoft's bing by 3%. it's 13% for yahoo, 16% for bing and 66% for the google. >> i remember when bing used to play pebble beach. all right, brian. >> bye, guys. >> thanks, brian shactman, will be at fenway tomorrow. up next, the best of late-night. ♪ keep ones self intact i love that my daughter's part fish. but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry !

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i feel fairly confident that the president is watching this broadcast right now. as a matter of fact, i believe we have a photo of the president watching right now. [ laughter ] >> okay. he seems to be enjoying it. he seems to be enjoying this interview very much. >> he's concerned. >> you are popular. [ cheers and applause ]

>> do you ever lord over the president the fact that you're more popular than he is? do you ever say, like, watch it, or i might not campaign for you? >> i might try that when i get home. >> have you endorsed him yet? are you prepared today that? >> i am prepared. i am endorsing my husband, barack obama. i think he will be a phenomenal president. he has done a phenomenal job. he is my man. [ cheers and applause ] >> here at newt gingrich headquarters, the feeling is that this race is far from over. >> that's newt gingrich headquarters? that looks like you're in the back of a van. >> gingrich temporary headquarters, until the campaign finds its foot, gets its momentum back. >> look, it's over. the guy is bouncing $500 checks. why stay in? >> because, and i am going to say this quietly, because i

don't want to wake him -- [ laughter ] the man is delusional! this is him from only ten hours ago. >> the republican nominee, whether it's governor romney or newt gingrich, is going to be substantially more conservative than is barack obama. >> republican nominee gingrich, romney? he's still got a 50/50 chance, right? oh, jesus christ. okay. looks like captain crispy cream is coming out of his doughnut coma. >> north korea has said they're planning on doing a test launch of their newly developed long-range missile. yeah. in fact, we were told just before the show that the launch took place. we have the footage. here's footage of the test, just released by pyongyang state

television. [ speaking in foreign language ] [ laughter ] >> i believe there's about 78 to 81 members of the democratic party that are members of the communist party. [ laughter ] >> 78 to 81. that's -- members of the communist party? really? it sounds like somebody -- it's time for somebody to lay off the tom clancy novels. because that, by the way, is a lot of guy think should be mitt romney's running mate. i would like that. we haven't had a truly crazy vice president since -- now, actually. ♪

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welcome back. time to talk about what we learned. john heileman. >> off camera, we were talking to josh. and he had -- he was talking about how-to things. how to fire people. bring a baseball bat. >> bring a baseball bat. >> bug show